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Reflections
- Waiting to see the Governor: Pictured from the left: Sandy Hines of Lake City, Abe Bonowitz of Jupiter, SueZann Bosler of Hallendale, Andrew Mason (crouching) of Orlando, Joe Brew of Gainesville, Bernie Welch of St. Augustine, and Dennis Lane of Jacksonville.
- Abe Bonowitz:
- We just want to spend a few minutes getting peoples impressions
Im recording this conversation. So I just want to see what peoples experience was just for the record and also so we can report on it to the movement
so
. I think SueZann and I went first and Laura was in there to film it, and of course the Associated Press and Miami Herald came in, too with us as well as Floridas News Channel. So we had good media presence – we’ll see what they do with it. But the amazing thing was that afterwards they thanked us for making today not so boring. Normally covering these events is a boring thing for them and weve made the news. So well see what happens with that.
My own impressions are that I, I let SueZann take the lead and tried to fill in, and SueZann did a great job. While we were waiting, we figured out that we could shuffle the order we were in to make sure we saw Jeb. Andrew was the sacrificial lamb so to speak, to allow us to get together and guarantee that we saw the Governor So thats what happened and SueZann, what do you think?
- SueZann Bosler:
- You know, the first impression I was never expecting to I was supposed to not cry or anything like that but I just got emotional and that seemed to get his attention more than I expected, so I guess it worked out better but in the long run, it really . What caught my eye was actually when you (Abe) were talking to him and you said victims pain for political gain is when I saw the hair stand up on the back of his neck and his face turned red. So thats when I saw him getting a bit defensive but then .
- Abe Bonowitz:
- Jeb got into political mode?
- SueZann Bosler:
- Yes. Then he got all flustered a little bit there. So, I mean but we had to keep on going back and forth with you know I, I slipped in something for you and you for me, but I think he listened, I mean, after I told him what happened to me and my father, I mean, I, I, its like I was eye-locked with him for the longest time, it was amazing. I mean, that moment. I just felt like it was a moment of time that I was finally getting listened to by the Governor. My side, as a victim, was finally getting heard.
- Abe Bonowitz:
- Anything else to add? No. OK – Well come back to you Bernie, who did you see?
- Bernie Welch:
- I saw Lt. Governor Brogan. And I took an obnoxiously subtle tact here I figured we had enough people talking directly about the death penalty, I actually talked about drug rehabilitation and a program outside of St. Augustine. Initially I was going to put it into the context of the Governors own daughter, you know, because I, I really feel that if people you know, any of us, you know, if we look at our own lives and our own family and our own vulnerabilities that may be a stepping stone to a little more compassionate view of people that we think are them that really arent them theyre us. And, anyway, Brogan was very receptive and positive about it, and I gave him a whole brochure on this faith-based program, and we actually started talking about restorative justice. You know that certainly is a more positive approach than the kind of criminal justice system we have that says, you know, beat this guy over the head and everything will be all right in society so anyway, thats where I was at.
- Dennis Lane:
- I talked to Lt. Governor Brogan. I thought his remarks were rather shallow and political. I said we are patching the capital punishment procedures in Florida I think we should quit patching and start to use a moratorium to try to develop a set of procedures that we can live with, to serve justice. I tried to emphasize what I think, I think its costing us a great deal in terms of people resources when we just disregard justice. I think the system is unfair and I told him that. He I talked about the moratorium which may result from the present Florida Supreme Court review of the case and he said, well I agree with that, we shouldnt be patching, the federal government shouldnt be interfering with us, they should decide we need the death penalty once and for all, and of course I didnt try to refute that because its not true, as you know, because about half of the states dont have the death penalty. And I said I agree with the federal government being in the picture, but we have the power down here to decide if we want the death penalty, and we shouldnt have it. And I tried to point out, you know, its unfair, its really unfairly applied and as O.J. Simpsons lawyer said, the best justice that money can buy. And if youve got the money and the people were executing dont have the money.
- Abe Bonowitz:
- Did you feel heard?
- Dennis Lane:
- I dont think so. I, I think he was giving me the political ear and I assume it just went into the ground, but, again, he said the right things, Im gonna communicate with the Governor very openly what you have said, you are a very astute individual, youre a great man, Dennis, youre obviously one thats very thoughtful….
- Abe Bonowitz:
- Laughter. It was worth coming?
- Dennis Lane:
- Yea, yea, we gotta show our presence. You know, Ive been to see the young man over at Raiford twice and I gotta go back again.
- Abe Bonowitz:
- Who do you visit at Raiford?
- Dennis Lane:
- Merrit?__Sims. And I just think, you know maybe Im standing in for him a little bit here, and for the others there. The trip over sure it was worth it being with Brother Welch here, who is an inspiration and seeing you again, Abe, which is always an inspiration.
- Abe Bonowitz:
- Well, thank you. Joe Brew: We started first about race and he pretty much said that there has been problems but he is trying to fix them and thats right now with the Supreme Court calling essentially a moratorium, and then we went on to talk about
the death penalty in general - Abe Bonowitz:
- Now, this is with the Governor, right?
- Joe Brew:
- Yeah, yeah, this was with Jeb. I told him that I was Catholic and he said he was a devout Roman Catholic as well and I asked him, like what he thought about the Bishops call for a moratorium and the Popes call for a moratorium, and he said thats just one place where he disagrees with the church and he feels that theyre wrong and I asked him whether if Jesus was alive today if he thought that Jesus would support capital punishment and he said didnt know and that there are passages in the Bible that would lead him to believe that he would support it and there are passages that would lead him to believe that he wouldnt, and I could, I could say the passages would believe him not to support the death penalty like, you know, like the stone passage with the lady and the eye for an eye thing and just all that stuff and then I asked him if he could state any examples of passages that would lead him to support the death penalty and he said he couldnt think of any of the parables right off hand but there were if you actually studied the Bible. But I think he needs a little more studying himself. Right then, he kind of stood up and he was like, all right, its been long enough.
- Abe Bonowitz:
- Did he give you anything? Did you get his autograph?
- Joe Brew:
- No, no, Id rather not have
- Abe Bonowitz:
- Are you happy that you came?
- Joe Brew:
- I am. I think it was good I think, I know hes still a politician. Hes pretty good at faking things. But I think at least he heard me, you know, like whether he was paying attention or not. The more that people talk to him, the more he has to start paying attention.
- Abe Bonowitz:
- Not too many 16 year olds get a chance to sit down one on one with the Governor. Would you recommend other people to try to do that?
- Joe Brew:
- Yeah, definitely .
- Abe Bonowitz:
- Thank you! Andrew! The sacrificial lamb. Andrew, you met with Lt. Governor Brogan.
- Andrew Mason:
- Yes. Well, I brought up some other issues besides just the death penalty, and my approach was figuring that everybody is going to be confronting him with their alternative, their positions against the death penalty to their positions and counteracting and saying, look the reasons for stopping the death penalty are this and this and you guys are doing the wrong thing, so I brought a kind of perspective of supporter who is fearful that they are going to lose votes because of their support of the death penalty and some other issues where I oppose them, so my kind of approach
- Abe Bonowitz:
- You actually pretended to be a supporter of the death penalty?
Read Andrew Mason’s comment card to the Governor: Click image to enlarge. 
- Andrew Mason:
- Basically. My approach was that, you know, I went in and he was all friendly, you know, hes a very slick politician, Frank Brogan, and hes been doing and practicing a while I would say, hes pretty good. I went in and I brought up the issue of them allowing a cement factory on the Ichnetucknee River which is gonna pollute what is the last clean, the most pristine river in Florida, and his responses were emotive and personal and trying to make connection with me and make me a part of it, and he said, well I have a stake in our environment and weve got good people and good scientists and this administrations got a great record and nobodys perfect but we do things really good and I have friends who go innertubing in the old Itch and so, we couldnt do anything that was gonna mess up that river and all, you know that kind of basic BS to kind of sidetrack things and so I said well what if something does go wrong, when you guys gonna
well you know were getting on things and were cleaning up all sorts of places have done horrible things but that was before us and we came in and we started cleaning things up.
But what about the drilling off the coast? Well, we didnt allow any drilling. We actually fought back and we took ____ back and defended our state against the federal government ___do this and that. It doesnt add up with whats actually happening, the way he portrays it and then when I brought up the death penalty, I said, you know, people are, you know, turning off to the death penalty, you know, most of us might support it, cause thats what he said, well, it seems like a lot of people support the death penalty, you know, and I said, well most of us might support it, but you know we want it to be right and you guys are pushin it when its not right and its broken and you know to push it along like that is just gonna make people turn off even more and lose people who are supporting it and I think you really need to just stop and take a look at it and re-examine things, you know, there have been court cases where people have been exonerated and there have been convictions overturned because they are retarded and the appeals court has said you cant execute people with mental retardation and you cant execute people if their sentence was imposed by a judge and you know, you just want to press ahead with that and I see Jeb on TV and it looks pretty bad and I think the Democrats could just seize upon this and you guys will totally lose the election because you know, people say, oh I dont know if I can support that.
Theyre pressin on with things and he said, well, its just hard to know what people are gonna do. That was his response to that, you know, its just hard to know what people are gonna do. But, Ill tell you what, its the hardest part of Jebs day, it tortures him really, to have to sign those death warrants. And the other side, they try and play it up like hes a big bad guy who wants to kill people. Its just not like that. So what can you do? I just asked him for an autograph and told him Ill vote for you.
- Abe Bonowitz:
- Laura?
- Laura:
- I asked him just to follow-up on when you guys went and why he wasnt there. And he said he was in Miami and he didnt want to talk to me. He said, didnt we already do this? And I said, no. And he said you already came in here and did this. Why are you in here again? and I said, no, this is something separate. Something completely separate so you have to talk to me. And then we spoke
- Abe Bonowitz:
- Was anyone else in the room at that time?
- Laura:
- No there was no one else. And then he told me he wasnt there but that he respects you and he respects the moratorium walkers, and I also asked him something that you brought up SueZann when you said if it was a family member would you ever sign a death warrant. I asked him that and he said, no ones ever asked me that before. So I said, so could you? And he said, well I would hope that none of my family members would you know cause such an atrocious crime. So, would you? And he says, I cant answer that. I I dont know. Its hard enough to sign them as is. You know, youre asking me something no one has ever asked me. So I dont know. And he said I have to go. And that was it. He didnt give me too much time.
- Abe Bonowitz:
- Does anyone want to add anything? No? Well thank you all very much.
Great job!